Cait (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
cmbranford) wrote2013-06-19 09:51 pm
cmbranford) wrote2013-06-19 09:51 pm
Twitter is frustrating when I actually want to express an opinion about something...
It's my posting day and this came up on the internet today, so I decided to write down some of my thoughts on it. Twitter is a useful tool, but 140 characters is not enough to have a meaningful discussion about any topic.
Basically, this guy, found this Kickstarter project and incited this petition to remove it. Incidentally, and quite bizarrely giving this whole issue an anime link, this is the guy in question.
The real problem here is that men like this think they're entitled to get laid and any trick they can perform to convince women to sleep with them is acceptable, as long as those women don't scream "no." For this reason I understand the disgust people are feeling over this issue, and I am in no way trying to be complicit in this creep's worldview. However, at the same time, advice that could potentially mislead readers into believing that forcing themselves on women completely against their will is not the same as telling them outright to rape them. It's not even suggesting that rape is okay. It is certainly suggesting that sexually harassing women is okay (which it isn't). It is certainly encouraging men to take dangerous risks with their own safety and, to be perfectly honest, freedom by engaging in less-than-gentlemanly and borderline illegal conduct, but it isn't telling them to continue when the woman says no. Nothing shown in any of the blurbs seems to indicate that these women have had their faculties removed under the influence of alcohol or other drugs, or that they are unable to give consent for any other reason (under-aged, mentally disabled).
It is disheartening that this entire tactic seems more drawn from a perception that "getting awesome with women" is the precipice of manliness, and that finding meaningful life fulfillment without tricks and douchey bullying is considered "pussyness." It is likewise worrying that any of the obvious losers looking for sex advice in this book might take "be dominant" and "don't wait for consent" to mean "do whatever you want regardless of what the woman says or does about it." Ultimately the greatest concern over this entire affair is that because of this book someone is going to get sexually assaulted, someone else is going to go to jail for sexual assault, and the completely careless Mr. Hoinsky is going to find himself sued over his bad advice.
So, in summary, this ill-conceived project is:
Condoning rape, no.
Encouraging sexual harassment, yes.
Potentially dangerous, yes.
He should probably rethink this thing before it goes to print, and we should all rethink how our society's values about sex and conquest lead people down paths to dark and disgusting places. Ultimately, I think my biggest disappointment here is that all too often this is the kind of relationship advice that is given to socially awkward men on the internet. We'd all be living in a much better world if these stories looked a lot more like this one.
Basically, this guy, found this Kickstarter project and incited this petition to remove it. Incidentally, and quite bizarrely giving this whole issue an anime link, this is the guy in question.
The real problem here is that men like this think they're entitled to get laid and any trick they can perform to convince women to sleep with them is acceptable, as long as those women don't scream "no." For this reason I understand the disgust people are feeling over this issue, and I am in no way trying to be complicit in this creep's worldview. However, at the same time, advice that could potentially mislead readers into believing that forcing themselves on women completely against their will is not the same as telling them outright to rape them. It's not even suggesting that rape is okay. It is certainly suggesting that sexually harassing women is okay (which it isn't). It is certainly encouraging men to take dangerous risks with their own safety and, to be perfectly honest, freedom by engaging in less-than-gentlemanly and borderline illegal conduct, but it isn't telling them to continue when the woman says no. Nothing shown in any of the blurbs seems to indicate that these women have had their faculties removed under the influence of alcohol or other drugs, or that they are unable to give consent for any other reason (under-aged, mentally disabled).
It is disheartening that this entire tactic seems more drawn from a perception that "getting awesome with women" is the precipice of manliness, and that finding meaningful life fulfillment without tricks and douchey bullying is considered "pussyness." It is likewise worrying that any of the obvious losers looking for sex advice in this book might take "be dominant" and "don't wait for consent" to mean "do whatever you want regardless of what the woman says or does about it." Ultimately the greatest concern over this entire affair is that because of this book someone is going to get sexually assaulted, someone else is going to go to jail for sexual assault, and the completely careless Mr. Hoinsky is going to find himself sued over his bad advice.
So, in summary, this ill-conceived project is:
Condoning rape, no.
Encouraging sexual harassment, yes.
Potentially dangerous, yes.
He should probably rethink this thing before it goes to print, and we should all rethink how our society's values about sex and conquest lead people down paths to dark and disgusting places. Ultimately, I think my biggest disappointment here is that all too often this is the kind of relationship advice that is given to socially awkward men on the internet. We'd all be living in a much better world if these stories looked a lot more like this one.
no subject
"Condoning" rape is toeing a fine line sometimes. I mean, technically what he says is that you shouldn't rape women, it's true, and to back off eventually if she insists, but the problem is the way consent is structured in current culture, men have a lot less concrete idea what it is. Part of it is the way society teaches "no means no", when in fact the better message means, "yes means yes." I read a comment by a commenter on the DoSomething page where she said a man she thought was her friend put his fingers inside her while she was asleep (and she is seeking charges against him, thank goodness). Under that -- and his definition -- because she didn't not consent (insist no), it would've been okay. It would be the man "taking charge."
I mean, however way you spin this (because I'm tired about the semantics of consent at this point), the book is vile. KickStarter is getting a lot of heat for it, as they should be. It's disappointing they didn't refuse to fund it. No one is blaming them really for not catching it in the first place, but it's sort of the lack of action that's really frustrating. We'll see how it plays out.
no subject
Men do need to understand that resistance isn't there to push past, and just because you can coerce consent eventually, doesn't mean it is okay. What this guy is promoting isn't outright rape, it's coerced consent, which is a very slippery slope to be sure. He shouldn't be writing this book or giving this advice to people, but there isn't much any of us can really do to stop it from happening at this point. Kickstarter can't take the money back now, and I doubt the backlash is going to make Hoinsky reconsider.
What we really need to be doing is changing the way people see acceptable forms of courtship. If all these guys just want to get laid, there ARE women who just want to have a good time, and none of these "tricks" should be necessary. But it goes both ways. Society has created unattainable standards and unrealistic expectations.
no subject
no subject